tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10261187.post6336356342911943541..comments2024-03-28T14:13:23.835-04:00Comments on By Neddie Jingo!: In Defense of OrcsNeddiehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17079885040758748553noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10261187.post-64244567490083119772009-05-14T08:30:00.000-04:002009-05-14T08:30:00.000-04:00Bobby Lightfoot takes it end-to-end and puts it in...Bobby Lightfoot takes it end-to-end and puts it in the 5-hole.<br /><br />(Wait, does that sound as filthy as it looks?)roxtarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10261187.post-33276104301384316842009-05-05T13:28:00.000-04:002009-05-05T13:28:00.000-04:00A lot of science fiction and fantasy has no econom...A lot of science fiction and fantasy has no economy. If you want considerations of trade, politics, and economics, look at C. J. Cherryh's grand future history of Union-Alliance space.Monadohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12523329434641725631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10261187.post-61620578728221948792009-05-05T13:25:00.000-04:002009-05-05T13:25:00.000-04:00They have inns and wagons (travel and infrastructu...They have inns and wagons (travel and infrastructure), fireworks & mithril-mail (manufacture or at least artisanship & crafts), brewing & farming (food production), and luxuries (pipe-weed). As far as economics go, that puts them miles ahead of the "Gor" SF novels, where there's have nothing but warriors, flying steeds, and slave-girls using up the food supplies.Monadohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12523329434641725631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10261187.post-29887431788093500912009-05-04T18:53:00.000-04:002009-05-04T18:53:00.000-04:00I've been threatening for years to finish a paper ...I've been threatening for years to finish a paper called "Space and Place in the Political Economy of Lord of the Rings". Now I don't need to... TY<br /><br />Though in truth no one reads Tolkien for the economic theory. The man was a linguist and it shows. Movies aside, the books are marvelous examples of world building. And do try LeGuin and Swanwick...<br /><br />Coincidentaly, I'm reading the POB books for the first time. Frankly I am at a loss to see what the fuss is about. I agree about Maturin, but Aubrey? All he'll do is get you killed.... <br /><br />The characterization and sense of place in Alan Furst's historicals about Central Europe between the World Wars leave O'Brian in the dust IMHO. As do Alexander Kent/Dudley Pope's sea battle descriptions.handdrummerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12287658517906891463noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10261187.post-52253467219660161442009-05-04T16:21:00.000-04:002009-05-04T16:21:00.000-04:00I had pnuemonia recently, and suffered through the...I had pnuemonia recently, and suffered through the 12 or so hours of the extended editions, since my partner had just got back from New Zealand and wanted to point out all the places he'd been, despite the fact a lot of the scenery shots have a layered and processed cgi look.<br /><br />The one-dimensional nature of good and evil is bad enough, but what makes them an interminable slog for me is all the repetition: <br /><br />- Frodo laughs as he says "Oh, Sam!"; (Too many to count)<br /><br />- A character looks wonky-eyed at the ring; (ditto)<br /><br />- Frodo puts on the ring after being told not to put on the ring and after he's already discovered it lead to really bad outcomes, (4 times)<br /><br />- A character seemingly dies and everyone looks sad, then comes back with a lazy explanation for not being dead; (Gandalf, Pippin and Merry, Aragorn, Gollum, Frodo)<br /><br />- A character seemingly dies and Legoland looks constipated; (3 times)<br /><br />- Kings display no leadership ability and makes you wonder why they're not overthrown; (2 times)<br /><br />- And Stewards; (half the third movie)<br /><br />- Everyone get emo about being hopelessly outnumbered in epic battle, including lots of milk-the-cow shots of women and children looking scared, to win the battle through what amounts to deux ex machina, (3 times)<br /><br />- Gollum has a conversation with himself for no reason other to explain to the audience what's happening; (2 times)<br /><br />- Sam say Gollum can't be trusted; (8 times)<br /><br />- The sound drops out, the music swells, and someone mouths someones name in slow motion; (too many times to count)<br /><br />- The dwarf trys to provide uncomic comic relief that even Orco wouldn't stoop to; (basically every line he utters from the 2nd movie on)<br /><br />- Number of speeches that rip-off 'Braveheart', (2 times)<br /><br />- Pippin f**ks up ang almost gets everyone killed; (4 times)<br /><br />- The 'last ship out of middle earth' has another 'last ship' leave after them; (2 times)<br /><br />- A character whose part in the story is done, is shoe-horned back into the narrative for no real reason; (4 times)<br /><br />- Ringwraiths take their sweet-arse time attacking someone; (5 times)<br /><br />- A moment that is supposed to be tragic is mishandled in a way that produces laughter; (3 times)<br /><br />- You think elves would be 'prettier' than that; (5 times)<br /><br />- An actor delivers bollocks about orcs'n'shit with the pomposity of Shakespeare; (all the time)<br /><br />- You wonder if Aragorn ever washes his hair; (every appearance)<br /><br />- Homing Horses; (2 times)<br /><br />- The New Zealand Rugby team are the Super Orcs, and you wonder if it's racist; (10 times)<br /><br />- One does not simply mansex into Mordor; (too many times to count).<br /><br />- Boil 'em, Mash 'em, stick-em-inna-stew!Homefront Radionoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10261187.post-32437611599067608462009-05-04T13:55:00.000-04:002009-05-04T13:55:00.000-04:00One does not simply walk into Mortor.Meh. I like t...<A HREF="http://www.culturekitchen.com/home/files/mortor.gif" REL="nofollow">One does not simply walk into Mortor.</A>Meh. I like the books a lot (it's poetry, not a political pamphlet), but the movies are a mixed bag. The first one is probably about as good as it could be, considering the limitations of the format, but the second one is terrible, and the last one about two hours too long (or alternatively, they could have used the last two hours of the film to actually tell more of the story, instead of just ignoring almost any hint of the costs of the war - which seemed to me to be pretty much the central theme of the last book).Niels G.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10261187.post-84874730614882260672009-05-04T11:46:00.000-04:002009-05-04T11:46:00.000-04:00You join pretty august company ragging on Tolkien,...You join pretty august company ragging on Tolkien, Ned, namely Edmund Wilson and his trilogy takedown, <I>Oo, Those Awful Orcs!</I> (anthologized in his oddly-titled <B>The Bit Between My Teeth</B>.)<br /><br />I'd need to re-read the piece again to give an accurate recap of Wilson's critique, (Okay, I just gave it a quick scan) but it mainly accuses the Ring tale of being silly, long-winded, pedantic and lacking any sense of true conflict.<br /><br /><I>My</I> overwhelming problem with the films is how the Orcs are presented as terrifying and overwhelming brutes who, when fight time comes, prove to be laughably easy to kill in heaps.<br /><br /><br />hineopo? hineopo!Will Dividehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17877416158115540051noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10261187.post-68757894175979692662009-05-04T11:41:00.000-04:002009-05-04T11:41:00.000-04:00Well I guess this is as good a time as any to post...Well I guess this is as good a time as any to post this (in case anyone hasn't seen it yet)<br />Holy Homo Hobbits Batman!<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHDb6Z79UhM&feature=related<br />And speaking as a broken-hearted Montrealer, it's good to see you Muricans enjoying the hockey. I'm pulling for the Caps in this one if for no other reason than the chance to watch Ovechkin have so damn much fun. That Varlamov stop was unfrikkinbelievable.dwgshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10802983136638036023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10261187.post-75098208610649728982009-05-04T11:31:00.000-04:002009-05-04T11:31:00.000-04:00Sounds like Bored of the Rings would be more to yo...Sounds like Bored of the Rings would be more to your liking (http://www.amazon.com/Bored-Rings-Parody-Tolkiens-Lord/dp/0451452615/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1241450768&sr=8-1). <br /><br />Tolkien, in one of his letters, claims to have more sympathy for anarchism than for most other political philosophies. He wrote a Medieval romance, because he loved that stuff, but he's a more complicated (and contradictory) man than his detractors prefer to admit.Boris the Spiderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03538441462121532902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10261187.post-31695639802819761422009-05-04T09:44:00.000-04:002009-05-04T09:44:00.000-04:00In ancient times...
Hundreds of years before the d...In ancient times...<br />Hundreds of years before the dawn of history<br />Lived a strange race of people... the Druids<br /><br />No one knows who they were or what they were doing<br />But their legacy remains<br />Hewn into the living rock... Of Stonehenge<br /><br />Stonehenge! Where the demons dwell<br />Where the banshees live and they do live well<br />Stonehenge! Where a man's a man<br />And the children dance to the Pipes of Pan<br /><br />Hey!<br /><br />Stonehenge! 'Tis a magic place<br />Where the moon doth rise with a dragon's face<br />Stonehenge! Where the virgins lie<br />And the prayers of devils fill the midnight sky<br /><br />And you my love, won't you take my hand?<br />We'll go back in time to that mystic land<br />Where the dew drops cry and the cats meow<br />I will take you there, I will show you how<br /><br />Oh!<br /><br />And oh how they danced<br />The little children of Stonehenge<br />Beneath the haunted moon<br />For fear that daybreak might come too soon <br /><br />And where are they now?<br />The little people of Stonehenge <br />And what would they say to us?<br />If we were here... tonightBobby Lightfoothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00671706326620424357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10261187.post-72232703543625476662009-05-04T08:34:00.000-04:002009-05-04T08:34:00.000-04:00Kevin: I'm actually enjoying the run-through. (Fin...Kevin: I'm actually enjoying the run-through. (Finished "Two Towers" last night, "Return" is on for tonight.)<br /><br />I do remember a moment from the climactic scene at Mount Doom from the original cinema run: Frodo, Sam and Gollum approach the entry to the whateverthefuck it was -- Pit of Persistent Rectal Itch or some such -- and I remarked to Freddie that there should have been a sign over the cave entry: "Got a Ring of Awesome Power that Needs Destroying? Do it Here! Low, Low Prices So Insane We're GIVING it Away!"Neddiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17079885040758748553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10261187.post-85261736073999245692009-05-04T08:23:00.000-04:002009-05-04T08:23:00.000-04:00Neddie, some months ago I did the same thing: Ran ...Neddie, some months ago I did the same thing: Ran through all three LOTR flicks. Extended versions, god help me. Not sure why since I'd read the trilogy as a teen and haven't returned since. I mean, why bother?<br /><br />For me, they're just movies. And as movies, they're pretty good. Peter Jackson keeps things moving along for the most part, until the incredibly, mind-numbingly protracted climax. By the end, I was ready to see the whole lot of them tossed into the mouth of Mount Doom, or wherever they're supposed to be.<br /><br />And don't get me started on the crying Hobbits. One more scene of crying Hobbits and I'd have been looking for a fiery pit myself.Kevin Wolfhttp://kevinwolf.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10261187.post-89409054103139047382009-05-04T05:03:00.000-04:002009-05-04T05:03:00.000-04:00Funny piece. Being far from a monarchist, I find ...Funny piece. Being far from a monarchist, I find myself thinking something similar with a lot of fantasy works, or even just history. But I do like Tolkien, flawed though he may be. The problem is when anyone ascribes inherent virtue or merit to a class system or any oligarchy. But LOTR is a fantasy, and one inspired by myths and sagas. Tolkien invented his own languages and mythology, for goodness' sake. I don't think most readers are attracted to the series due to fantasies of sitting atop a feudal power structure. (Well, I'm sure you can find some like that.) There's always going the Wagner route with your evil rings of power instead. And it's fine if a genre isn't your thing – but it's silly to get snobby about an entire, broad genre. There's crap and good stuff in most every one – although you're free to argue the percentage is horribly lopsided in some. <br /><br />Here's Varlamov's astounding save, BTW:<br /><br />http://www.nhl.tv/team/console.jsp?catid=23&id=41244<br /><br />Ovechkin's goal in game 5 versus the Rangers was stunning, too. When I lived in DC, I saw a fair number of Caps-Pens games...Batocchiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02193752396025012825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10261187.post-41316622935141857152009-05-03T22:19:00.000-04:002009-05-03T22:19:00.000-04:00We concur on POB - a brilliant writer. I met him o...We concur on POB - a brilliant writer. I met him once in NY, at the reading of The Yellow Admiral.<br /><br />Maturin is one of the great literary creations.Tom W.http://www.newcritics.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10261187.post-15226376364045687562009-05-03T21:17:00.000-04:002009-05-03T21:17:00.000-04:00BTW, some years ago, I joined the O'Brian listserv...BTW, some years ago, I joined the O'Brian listserv, just to see what sort of thing arose. My conclusion?<br /><br />Far too many Aubreys in that crowd, and not nearly enough Maturins.Neddiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17079885040758748553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10261187.post-47429079599066760102009-05-03T21:02:00.000-04:002009-05-03T21:02:00.000-04:00Tom: We go back a ways, our two hockey towns. Ther...Tom: We go back a ways, our two hockey towns. There's been a bit of a one-sided relationship in Stanley Cup playoffs -- your outfit generally comes out on the more victorious end of things, leaving Washingtonians cursing Penguin perfidy and swearing revenge. <br /><br />This year, I believe, vengeance is ours.<br /><br />On Ovechkin's go-ahead goal, LaFleur was so badly out of position that his jockstrap hung daintily from the top rail of the goal. This does not put much fear into the Washington heart.<br /><br />Varlamov, in almost exactly the same overcommitted position, reached back with his stick and plucked a shot from the goal's very mouth. Trust me when I say this, <I>that was not luck.</I> <br /><br />PNH: I should learn my lesson. A few years ago, I made the same assertion about science fiction, tarring the entire genre with a broad brush, and paid a price for it. <br /><br />It's just that I have extremely grave suspicions about, as you term it, "people who would secretly like to return to a world of lords and peons," and I succumb to the temptation to generalize about them. There are authors in and around the genre whose views I consider genuinely deeply toxic (Rand, Pournelle, Heinlein), and when I find this my prejudice extending to Paul Williams' friend P. K. Dick, I am ashamed.<br /><br />Please forgive me if I say that I have been heretofore unaware of any "complicated argument and discussion about the influence, good and bad, of Tolkien." My comments on "The Silmarillion" in my original post apply here, too.<br /><br /><I>Or maybe you're dismissing a whole storytelling genre because you didn't like a big-budget movie.</I>Touché. Let's put it this way: <I>In my humble opinion</I> (which is, after all, the only thing at home in this blog), the burden of proof that a writer of fantasy fiction doesn't blow dead bear is on the writer. In my own literary judgment, this is true of virtually any genre fiction at all.<br /><br />For example...<br /><br />Tom W.: <I>(Bit 'upper crust oblige' that POB, but at least there's an acknowledgment of classes).</I>The accusation is a fair one, but in return I present Stephen Maturin, fiery Irish revolutionary, passionate anti-Bonapartist spy and a prefigurer of Darwin; I can't think of a cause Maturin isn't on the right side of. (True, he calls Rousseau a "mumping villain," but I'm coming around to that POV myself in my dotage...)<br /><br />I've read everything at least twice and "Desolation Island" (my hands-down favorite) four times.<br /><br />Patrick O'Brian has pretty much ruined any other historical fiction for me. He's <I>just that good.</I>JD: Received. Just checked.Neddiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17079885040758748553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10261187.post-49469039139439018122009-05-03T14:40:00.000-04:002009-05-03T14:40:00.000-04:00I don't remember which accent Sean Bean used as Bo...I don't remember which accent Sean Bean used as Boromir, Received or his usual Yorkshire, but if he used his native accent that would totally confuse things.JDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09328105082296895031noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10261187.post-9616176574250851572009-05-03T14:12:00.000-04:002009-05-03T14:12:00.000-04:00What reading of O'Brian you on?
(Bit 'upper crust...What reading of O'Brian you on?<br /><br />(Bit 'upper crust oblige' that POB, but at least there's an acknowledgment of classes).Tom W.http://www.newcritics.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10261187.post-45776119289959837332009-05-03T13:35:00.000-04:002009-05-03T13:35:00.000-04:00All your criticisms of Tolkien are correct; what&#...All your criticisms of Tolkien are correct; what's more interesting to me is the question of why his books work anyway--what's in them that speaks with force and seriousness, not just to people who would secretly like to return to a world of lords and peons, but also to plenty of sensibly left-wing people who know perfectly well that they wouldn't.<br /><br />Maybe those latter people are all, as you suggest, simply persons who "haven't advanced beyond" the age of thirteen. Or maybe it's more complicated than that. I edit (among other things) fantasy novels for a living, and the person most responsible for pushing me into getting into this line of work is someone who, just a few posts ago, you were praising quite a bit -- my friend Paul Williams. Maybe he's just another of your thirteen-year-olds. <br /><br />Maybe modern genre fantasy is nothing but Tolkien clones and warmed-over D&D, and writers like Ursula Le Guin, China Mieville, and Michael Swanwick don't exist, nor has there ever been an ounce of complicated argument and discussion about the influence, good and bad, of Tolkien. Or maybe you're dismissing a whole storytelling genre because you didn't like a big-budget movie.Patrick Nielsen Haydenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13675127319737095559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10261187.post-60873578227435679452009-05-03T12:28:00.000-04:002009-05-03T12:28:00.000-04:00Sorry to dwell on your incidental introductory par...Sorry to dwell on your incidental introductory paragraph, but I'm afraid the infinitely superior prowess of Marc Andre Fluery will, in the long run, leave the upstart Varlamov's brilliant bit of luck a distant memory as the Miserable Pittsburgh Penguins march on to series three. (Friendly wagers welcome!)Tomnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10261187.post-5327807077472468002009-05-03T11:55:00.000-04:002009-05-03T11:55:00.000-04:00Yeah, I remember a World War II movie made somewhe...Yeah, I remember a World War II movie made somewhere in the early Eighties (The Big Red One, maybe?). And the main reaction I had to the leading man was, "Center-parted, blow-dried hair, with side-feathers? Really?"Neddiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17079885040758748553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10261187.post-75503478650468473922009-05-03T11:27:00.000-04:002009-05-03T11:27:00.000-04:00My inability to suspend disbelief kept me from get...My inability to suspend disbelief kept me from getting into this stuff, too. Though truth be told, it usually one tiny detail that I can't get past: the hairstyle of the female lead isn't historically accurate or a throwaway line just doesn't "make sense" or something. <br /><br />Gah! <br /><br />It's tough having a brain like this. I wish I could enjoy movies more.Annapolitannoreply@blogger.com